Webinar 2012 10

This is a special webinar for Tiki's 10th birthday.


  • 37m 20s: Intro of the participants
  • 50m 27s: interview with mose
    • How he joined the project
    • The IRC channel and "polom"
    • The 3 rules (57:45)
    • TikiFests (61:45)
    • Dogfood (64:35)
    • Reluctant leadership, or hyperactivity (66:20)
    • Multitiki and Intertiki (72:50)
    • Trackers (76:38)
    • mods and the all-in-one Model, community culture (82:50)
    • LGPL (99:40)
    • Current life, programming languages (106:00)
    • Operating systems (112:35)
    • His online history, PHP (113:45)
    • The future Internet (116:20)
      • Browsers (121:20)
    • Advice for Tiki, if any (126:40)
    • Community questions (136:00)
    • Currencies (alternative) (138:40)
    • Tiki Admin Group (143:15)
    • Code documentation (151:35)
    • The "mose" nickname (156:00)
    • Human languages, Chinese (158:15)

  • Break (162:15)
  • 2h 52m 40s: Community discussion (see topics below)



Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 19:00:00 UTC time (click for time zone in your city)

Special guest: mose

Open Space and community discussion

  • Forthcoming Releases
    • 9.2 release imminent
    • Release coordinator for 10.x
    • Branch 10.x soon
    • Discussion about merging and backporting
  • Developers Round Table
    • New parser state
      • Nearing point of non-experimental
      • Concerns
      • Things we'd like to see
      • How does it work?
      • How do we integrate CKEditor and html to wysiwyg?
      • How can we ensure that it is tested properly?


  • live.tiki.org via BigBlueButton
    • All you need is a web browser with Flash enabled
    • Make sure to have a headset (otherwise, we'll mute you to avoid background noises)
    • You'll also be able to phone in using Skype or a regular phone, but in this case, you won't have access to chatroom and presentation.


Chat log

anonymous: hmm
robertplummer: polom ;) Mose
robertplummer: I heard "Everyone...."
robertplummer: And jonny... "Hellloooo...."
Jonny Bradley: i don't hear anyone else tho
Guest: kstingel: polom
Mose: heya
Jonny Bradley: sometimes the reply is moloq
Mose: forgot I had this open
Guest: kstingel: why does it show me as Guest: ~ ?
Jonny Bradley: becasue you didn't login to tiki.org before joining the room
Guest: kstingel: ahh ... brb
Jean-François B.: polom
Jean-François B.: :)
Karen Stingel: polom
Karen Stingel: is 5 AM here ... not planning to talk much :)
Bernard Sfez: Hi all... 21h00 here bringing coffee mug, chips, nutella
Karen Stingel: coffee? ... oops .... brb :)
Karen Stingel: yup
Jean-François B.: yep
Guest: Geoff: Hi - geoff here
Bernard Sfez: Hi geoff to avoid being "guest" get out and login on tw site then you will join as user.
Guest: Geoff: I thought I did that - oh well
Jean-François B.: hi mini robert :)
Bernard Sfez: Robert's baby ! :D
Bernard Sfez: now start the sex show ?
Guest: Greg Martin: How do I become not a guest?
Bernard Sfez: hi
Jean-Marc Libs: hi guys!
Karen Stingel: can see and hear you Marc
Bernard Sfez: (log from tw then you'll join as user)
Geoff Brickell: so I'm not a guest now
Bernard Sfez: y
Jean-François B.: i just don't have a micro
Jean-François B.: :)
Jean-François B.: so it will be byhand
Jean-François B.: :)
Marc Laporte: we do!
Marc Laporte: yonixxx :-)
Karen Stingel: I'm mic-shy ... hi all from Brisbane
Bernard Sfez: loud and clear
Mose: there is only 2 guys with a webcam ?
Bernard Sfez: no i have too but switched off
Karen Stingel: my cam is sleeping
Karen Stingel: I'm cam-shy too
Mose: wake it up !
Karen Stingel: noooo
Mose: I am as well
Jean-François B.: Jean-François B. aka changi67 from Strasbourg (FRANCE) working at the Council of Europe. Member of Tiki TAG, and Member of Infrastructure Team (the guy at the back which make things working)
Bernard Sfez: LOL
Mose: show your nose !
Jean-Marc Libs: testers with access to windows: tough :)
Bernard Sfez: but we can ear his keyboard typing !
Jean-François B.: what was the question
Mose: where does changi come from ??
Jean-François B.: changi is the alsacien version of jean-francois
Jean-François B.: :)
Mose: so cryptic ;)
Jean-François B.: Mose: notso
Bernard Sfez: go jonny go go !
Karen Stingel: have mic ... but also having slepping ppl
Karen Stingel: *sleeping
Marc Laporte: Karen: what time for you?
Karen Stingel: is 5:16 AM in Brisbane
Mose: hey sylvie !
Bernard Sfez: Salut Sylvie
Jean-Marc Libs: easier as in more procedural ? :)
Jean-François B.: and the beautiful jison parser :)
Marc Laporte: https://www.ohloh.net/p/tikiwiki/contributors
Jean-Marc Libs: Salut Sylvie
sylvie: hello - I have no speaker here
Bernard Sfez: aoutch
Guest: deeku: Hi
Mose: it's 3am for me !
Greg Martin: Good morning karen!
Guest: deeku: 1 am here
Bernard Sfez: Mose u didn't change ! :)
Greg Martin: Wow - great to have this wide-varied team
sylvie: I have no microphone
Greg Martin: type it
sylvie: so hello guys
Jean-Marc Libs: 3am is more late evening than early morning
Bernard Sfez: LOL
Karen Stingel: I keep trying to mute my keyboard, but I think Marc keeps turning off the mute
Jean-Marc Libs: Presentation of Marc in case some people don't know Marc?
Jean-Marc Libs: Hi mose
Greg Martin: HI, mode!
Greg Martin: mose!
Karen Stingel: hi mose
Daniel Gauthier: Hello all!
Bernard Sfez: Hi Daniel
Marc Laporte: a bit louder mose
robertplummer: polom = knock knock?
Karen Stingel: just lost sound Marc
Marc Laporte: sound is ok here
Bernard Sfez: sound ok here
Karen Stingel: is back
Jonny Bradley: sound good for me2
Bernard Sfez: polom polom is very french :)
robertplummer: polom = ping?
robertplummer: lol
Bernard Sfez: sort
Jonny Bradley: "hello" was originally an expression of surprise, or call for help
robertplummer: no words...
Bernard Sfez: someone could have look at it as a whistle
Karen Stingel: "polom polom" is a quote from The Hobbit :)
Karen Stingel: he was also in The Hobbit though ... I haven't read the other book
Bernard Sfez: I kept only Mose image in the video dock and closed the other and my sound is really better.
Marc Laporte: http://tiki.org/List+of+past+TikiFests
Greg Martin: I love that
Karen Stingel: opera doesn't like BBB ... switching browsers
Bernard Sfez: it remind me some discussion with Damien and Toggg :D
Greg Martin: maybe not a leader, but certainly displaying leadership
Bernard Sfez: It is important to notice that back in time most of the CMS where english only, Mose and other manage to make it more international.
robertplummer: Sound = steller!
Mose: 對
Jonny Bradley: /me likes multitiki
Guest: ricks99: better late than never
Guest: ricks99: hi y'all (ricks99)
Karen Stingel: hi Rick
Jean-Marc Libs: dogfooding
Bernard Sfez: Hi Rick
Jean-Marc Libs: \o/ trackers \o/
Daniel Gauthier: Hello Mose. I'd like to thank you for your involment and determination into Tiki (Marc as well and other admins). I'm a newbie within the community and I can tell you that I have learned an awfull lot since I joined the community. Happy 10 years anniversary !!!
Guest: deeku: +1
Guest: ricks99: +100
Guest: ricks99: Mose patiently answered many of my questions when I began
robertplummer: Now with tracker query, 10000 = not to bad.
Jonny Bradley: i have a 15,000 item tracker running very happily (in Japan)
robertplummer: (render off, lol)
Bernard Sfez: with a little imagination + pretty you can almost do anything
Jean-Marc Libs: 25000 tracker items and counting
Guest: ricks99: /me hopes everyone remembers to vote for tiki: http://info.tiki.org/article202-Vote-for-Tiki-Best-Free-CMS
Daniel Gauthier: heu... sorry for my lack of knowledge: What are "mods"?
Guest: ricks99: check out a timeline of the TIki releases: https://tiki.org/display182
Jonny Bradley: shame http://tiki.org/TikiFest+Timeline seems to be broken (just fixed it - r43530)
Bernard Sfez: has voted :)
Guest: ricks99: mods repository: http://mods.tiki.org/
Greg Martin: There is a spectrum of distro methods - for wordpress it is mostly in modules, we're near the other end. There is value in both
Greg Martin: having the feature is a plus
Greg Martin: IMO
Bernard Sfez: Totally agree... extreme example is module/widget in Wordpress. Dozens do the same with some variations.
Guest: ricks99: wonder... is the "strength" of tiki the community, as opposed to drupal who's strength (it could be argued) is more commercial?
Jean-François B.: maye because it's too hard too maintain all feature, easier to maintain modules
Karen Stingel: because their coders aren't good enough to get it right?
Jean-François B.: s/too/to
Guest: ricks99: http://tiki.org/FOSS+Web+Application+with+the+most+built-in+features
Guest: ricks99: easier to "monotonize" code (the drupal way)
Guest: Nelson: it is self selecting, if you don't want to work together you won't last long in tiki so ...
Guest: Nelson: why LGPL is an interesting question also
Jean-Marc Libs: That would require mods versioning
sylvie: Nice to hear you guys - need to leave for 45mn
Jonny Bradley: bye sylvie
Guest: ricks99: if you're unfamiliar with GPL vs. LGPL licensing issues: http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/GPL_vs_LGPL
robertplummer: I have worked on vairous products that "wrap" tiki.
robertplummer: Without LGPL, it would be a no-go.
Guest: Nelson: yeah, for the "wrappers" it would make a difference
robertplummer: mit
Jonny Bradley: we're "compatible" with MIT, aren't we?
Jean-Marc Libs: It makes it easier than GPL to combine with other software.
Guest: Nelson: as far as I know, LGPL explicitly allow applying the GPL to i tthough
robertplummer: If we went with something more complex than mit, I would imagine it would be more difficult, but mit.... search and replace ;)
Guest: Nelson: there is a legal problem in going to the MIT
Guest: ricks99: @JonnyB: I believe Tiki is compatible with MIT. See discussion: http://tiki.org/License
Guest: Nelson: (need to get "everyone" who contributed to agree"
robertplummer: So each developer owns the code he commits?
Jean-Marc Libs: Even the dead authors ?
Bernard Sfez: :)
Guest: Nelson: compatible yes, in the sense in that you can put MIT code in TIki code and vice versa
robertplummer: have you tried OO php?
Guest: ricks99: OO Chinese? ;-)
Jean-Marc Libs: Traditional chinese would be procedural chines, or even state-machnie oriented chinese :)
robertplummer: Lol, I came from C#... The microsoft Java.
robertplummer: Have you tried YACC?
robertplummer: ruby... love it.
robertplummer: Very little experience, reminds me of json... mininalist.
Jonny Bradley: anyone tried groovy on grails?
robertplummer: nope
robertplummer: you?
Jonny Bradley: briefly
Jean-Marc Libs: I think stae-machine programming is aonly taught to electronics engineers. Works for a lot of everyday-use devices, though.
robertplummer: internet was written in english....
robertplummer: sad reality
Jean-Marc Libs: Do they invent a chinese sign for the english terms?
robertplummer: 汉字/漢字 mysql 汉字/漢字
robertplummer: lol
Jonny Bradley: :D
Guest: Nelson: well, need minimalist hardware to look at minimalist code?
Jean-Marc Libs: So the OS choice makes you more of a stranger than the language ? :)
robertplummer: me = Ubuntu 12.04
robertplummer: debian = minimalist
robertplummer: gnome-shell?
robertplummer: Spell it?
Jean-Marc Libs: cinnamon
robertplummer: Ah yes, favorit tea.
Bernard Sfez: canelle
Jean-Marc Libs: online
robertplummer: First time I've seen it: http://imclement.com/cinnamon-1-3-for-lmde-and-debian/
robertplummer: Looks very user friendly.
Bernard Sfez: 19.6kbp
robertplummer: ur, uh.. developer friendly.
Guest: Nelson: debian is minimalist OS yes, but I was referring to the hardware. Macs are minimalist hardware-wise lol.
Guest: deeku: I was sysop of a BBS in India - with Waffle and then PowerBBS
robertplummer: I was 7.
robertplummer: WHen you got on the net.
robertplummer: I think we are looking at it right now, no?
robertplummer: (bb)
Greg Martin: I used email & FTP while it was still DARPA Net in 1989
robertplummer: (bbb)
Guest: deeku: Um, it was not the net then - the BBSs predated the net in terms of mass appeal
Guest: ricks99: /me still has a FidoNet Account... I think :-)
Greg Martin: FidoNet +1
Guest: deeku: Ah, FidoNet!
Geoff Brickell: and before that the private global networks like GEIS
Guest: deeku: CIX
Guest: deeku: X.25
Bernard Sfez: Calvados ?
robertplummer: I love javascript.
robertplummer: I just wish it inherited, doh!
Jean-François B.: and more and more with mobile devices
Karen Stingel: *sigh* Windon't wants a kick up the ...
robertplummer: humans are addicts of state of the art.
Karen Stingel: I'll be back if I can it to reboot
Greg Martin: this is an important point, mose
Jean-Marc Libs: They only enforce it internally. It does not really impact the world
Greg Martin: There is also a large group of folks who use what came with their PC
Bernard Sfez: agree
Jean-Marc Libs: They *are* being pushed out of the picture in a way that never worked against IE6.
Jean-Marc Libs: Because developpers used to develop for IE6 on visualstudio. Now they develop for FF because of firebug
Bernard Sfez: there are still specific market using XP and ie6 :)
Jean-Marc Libs: and IE comes as an afterthought and it shows
Rick: /me still likes IE. :)
Jean-Marc Libs: :)
robertplummer: Upgrade Upgrade Upgrade!
Jean-Marc Libs: I know of others :)
robertplummer: Go Go Go Go!
Greg Martin: I use IE & Chrome.
robertplummer: polom ;)
Jean-Marc Libs: More jQuery than Javascript
robertplummer: no, it was trimpath
robertplummer: They did it barley.
robertplummer: it is possible, it is just time and money.
Greg Martin: could we use html5 sockets for live updates?
Daniel Gauthier: Question: I saw in your previous version of UserPage at: http://tiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=UserPagemose that early on you were interrested in the "conceptualization of Intelligent communities". Your toughts on the evolution of markets please?
Greg Martin: (right, like I have a clue how to do it :-) )
Guest: Nelson: I have a running nodejs server, with chat integrated into Tiki.... wil try and put it together to commit but not sure where the nodejs stuff will go)
Greg Martin: Cool
Greg Martin: you can run node.js on Openshift
Marc Laporte: http://redistogo.com/
Greg Martin: https://openshift.redhat.com/community/get-started/node-js
Marc Laporte: http://nodester.com/
Mose: http://www.ieml.org/spip.php?rubrique33&lang=fr/
Jean-Marc Libs: where is Xavi? :(
Marc Laporte: http://cc.tiki.org
Rick: lol
Daniel Gauthier: Marc gave me the other day a "different" / "New" perspective and view about the role of the admin group. Please, Marc, can you share something on this?
Bernard Sfez: ;)
Jean-Marc Libs: When is the Taiwan Tkifest? :)
Bernard Sfez: tikifest in Taiwan ?
Jean-Marc Libs: We have code documentation?
Jonny Bradley: i remember someone at a tikifest asking if code documentation was allowed in tiki
Jean-Marc Libs: :)
Greg Martin: Good seeing everyone. Tie for me to go or I'll never get to leave work. If anyone has a windows server instance and want to test the web deploy install, give me a shout on the mailing list
Greg Martin: Thanks mode & marc
Greg Martin: mose & marc
Bernard Sfez: Balance !
Bernard Sfez: :D
Rick: We'll need your real name to change from LGPL to a different license, eh?
Jean-Marc Libs: If you hire him, he will give it to you for the money transfer :)
Jean-François B.: need to go
Jean-François B.: see ya
Jean-Marc Libs: Tchö Jeff
robertplummer: No mo/se?
Marc Laporte: oz mose
robertplummer: It isn't the language, it is what you plan to do with the it.
robertplummer: With smart code.
robertplummer: ?
Bernard Sfez: Thank you Mose
Rick: Thank you Mose, for all you've done for Tiki!
Jean-Marc Libs: Nice to see you again \o/
Mose: same for me JM
Jean-Marc Libs: pass by Strasbourg !
robertplummer: Thanks Mose, I like your view of the web.
robertplummer: Very interesting and helpful.
Mose: always a pleasure to share
Jean-Marc Libs: And RMLL ?
robertplummer: So you'll be at the next webinar, right?
Marc Laporte: https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/
Bernard Sfez: me too !
Daniel Gauthier: I'm leaving, tks all.
Daniel Gauthier: see you next time.
robertplummer: Sounds good.
Bernard Sfez: back
Karen Stingel: I was out when you booted everyone I think
Mose: ok, I gonna get off
Mose: I need to finish soem stuff
Karen Stingel: bye Mose
Jonny Bradley: bye mose - thanks
Mose: cya I will stick around on irc anyway
Marc Laporte: Thanks mose!!
Guest: Juanma: Thanks Mose
Karen Stingel: apparently all the restarts have fixed my mic ... pity it doesn't show as working (visually)
Torsten Fabricius: polom
Torsten Fabricius: getting headset
Jean-Marc Libs: Hi Torsten
Karen Stingel: I'm assuming the cough was me, just before I muted me again
Bernard Sfez: Hi all again
Bernard Sfez: (bbb should store how i set panels)
anonymous: Is it just me you guys are waiting on?
anonymous: Is there anything else that needs to be discussed?
Guest: Nelson: hi,
Rick: http://tiki.org/ReleaseNotes9.2
robertplummer: ok, sorry, I was anon for a min.
Rick: release, or another beta?
robertplummer: no beta, just release.
Bernard Sfez: I'm concerned about tracker field -> user preference email regression
Rick: k
robertplummer: (in the usual robert way)
robertplummer: like a hail storm
Bernard Sfez: :)
Marc Laporte: Topic: Tiki10
Rick: screencast stuff is awesome
Geoff Brickell: would be good to branch for 10 soon - so it gets more stable to test
Torsten Fabricius: hi, listening now
Marc Laporte: awesome!
Torsten Fabricius: +1
Marc Laporte: +100!
Bernard Sfez: tks
Rick: sounds like a great release team
robertplummer: +1
robertplummer: I need to step away for about 30 minutes guys, something came up.
Jonny Bradley: np robert
Torsten Fabricius: me aswell
Jean-Marc Libs: There is still half an hour today here :)
Guest: Nelson: Sounds good to me, pretty much all my new things will be for Tiki 11 so only fixes to Tiki 10
Torsten Fabricius: I am anyway working mostly with 10 already
Jean-Marc Libs: I am not finished working on Tiki9, so I'll leave you guys start with Tiki10 without me
Jean-Marc Libs: Also no refactoring. These are just as bad as new features
Rick: need to be able to switch back and forth with no issues
Rick: users want to go wiki <-> html <-> wysiwyg
Torsten Fabricius: I tried Wiki <-> Wiki-Wysiwyg - find this a lot better!
Marc Laporte: Discussion about merging and backporting
Karen Stingel: wouldn't justify be handled with CSS and classes?
Guest: luci: heya there, i totally forgot it is the webinar tonight !
Guest: luci: luci
Jonny Bradley: hi luci :)
Torsten Fabricius: hi luci
Jonny Bradley: you're very quiet Nelson
Bernard Sfez: better
Marc Laporte: http://code.tiki.org/Commit+43530
Guest: luci: nice !
Karen Stingel: Who's in charge of the Themes? .. I found an omission in layout.css, I've reported it on Themes forum but I didn't know if I should fix it myself
Guest: Nelson: Themes is Gary?
Torsten Fabricius: Karen, I think the themes forum is not really active - an issue in itself
Karen Stingel: just thought I should mention it if we're about to do a branch
Marc Laporte: Karen: luci & Gary
Rick: Rick has to sign off. Glad to hear from Mose.. and that the Tiki 10 release is in great hands
Karen Stingel: is only that someone forgot the HTML5 section element :)
Torsten Fabricius: we mabe should move the themes forum to tiki.org
Guest: luci: oh, i missed Mose, :-/
Torsten Fabricius: karen, could you fix it? I bvelieve you did, but not yet commited
Guest: luci: Karen: i will read it
Marc Laporte: https://dev.tiki.org/Jison+Parser#Pre-dogfood_server
Jonny Bradley: +1
Torsten Fabricius: +1
Torsten Fabricius: do I have voice?
Torsten Fabricius: ... did anybody mention, that jison should NOT be activated sametime as WYSIWYG?
Karen Stingel: fixed, and just commiting to trunk now
Bernard Sfez: as i said i have some tw to update to 10 so i'll test too
Marc Laporte: http://tiki.org/Consulting+Team
luciash d' being: Karen: i do not see your post on themes.tiki.org; what is your nick there or could you paste a link ?
luciash d' being: Torsten: yes, Robert did mention it I think... which is a bit unfortunate
Marc Laporte: http://tiki.org/Lists+of+members+of+all+Teams
Karen Stingel: http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=45348&forumId=14
Jean-Marc Libs: +1
Torsten Fabricius: http://demo.tiki.org/tiki_org_revamp/
luciash d' being: Hey, a rendering bug, the np ends up somehow out of the CODE plugin: http://code.tiki.org/Commit+43524
robertplummer: I'm back!
Jonny Bradley: edgecase++
Torsten Fabricius: record: revamp.tiki.org -> Torsten
Jean-Marc Libs: It's not edgecases, it's power !
Bernard Sfez: i hate line breaks
Torsten Fabricius: i hate white pages
Bernard Sfez: i prefer white page, than tracking why br or p are multiplying ! :D
luciash d' being: i would need a presentation with examples to fully understand the benefits i fear, sorry
Bernard Sfez: +1
Bernard Sfez: LOL Jean-Marc has his hand up a very long time !
luciash d' being: No conflict with Wysiwyg is crucial to have it on (the feature)
Torsten Fabricius: Robert, do you talk about Jison with WYSIWYG/HTML or Jison with WYSIWYG/Wiki or both?
Jonny Bradley: both
Torsten Fabricius: thx
Torsten Fabricius: I feel WYSIWYG/Wiki would be what I want to use in most projects
Torsten Fabricius: Robert/Jonny - I have a new project, getting productive now ... people desperately want to have WYSIWYG <-> do you suggest to wait a while using only Wiki and then when you are at a certain point switch on Jison and WYSIWYG/Wiki ?
Bernard Sfez: this is critical here too...
Torsten Fabricius: do we call CKE/WYSIWYG/Wiki -> WIKIWYG?
Guest: Nelson: yeah, that ajax call to display sounds really much more solid
Bernard Sfez: JM close your mic !
Bernard Sfez: :D
Torsten Fabricius: The nice thing with WIKIWYG is that you can simply switch to the Wiki code and back to WYSIWYG mode
luciash d' being: Karen: thank you for the commit, although we do not use it anywhere in Tiki yet as far as i can grep
luciash d' being: Karen: the HTML5 section element
Torsten Fabricius: luci, but HTML is coming, so we should have it
luciash d' being: Karen: good to be futureproof :)
Torsten Fabricius: +1 luci and karen
robertplummer: Class myclass extends JisonParser_Wiki_Handler {}
Karen Stingel: yw luci ... I need it there for my ePub script :)
Jonny Bradley: yay, go tiki! (go Robert!)
Karen Stingel: I'm trying to write it to output ePub2-3 compatible files, so that's future-proofed too ... and when the readers catch up to ePub 3.0, we'll already be producing them
Bernard Sfez: sound good
Torsten Fabricius: I like the ideas of Robert, even not understanding every detail ... but the overall picture sounds really good
Bernard Sfez: Karen mic is sleeping
Karen Stingel: sorry, I missed that ...truck nearby
robertplummer: Torsten, give me wiki, I'll give you html, or ckeditor, or pdf, or whatever.
Jonny Bradley: hmmm, tikiCloud...
Torsten Fabricius: ^u^
Karen Stingel: is on my wishlist Jonny
Jean-Marc Libs: Robert: can I give you html and get wiki back ?
Torsten Fabricius: good spot jean-marc
Torsten Fabricius: I already copied html from a website into a CKE/Wiki, switched to Wiki sourcecode, did some edits and back to CKE -> save and a nice page
Karen Stingel: is it (or will it be) possible to go from wiki-syntax to polyglot HTML?
Torsten Fabricius: should be possible with Jison aswell and I believe it will work even better after times
Jean-Marc Libs: Torsten: real users copy from Word, not websites, and then you are in trouble. :(
robertplummer: jison will not answer html to wiki
luciash d' being: why it cannot be both ways when it does already one ?
Bernard Sfez: JM + 100 and another + 100% 99% of my user do copy/paste from word
luciash d' being: sure, but at least partially it could (sure wiki syntax has difficult plugins - but we can do them as we do in Wysiwyg - just a pop-up editable box to edit the plugin params)
Torsten Fabricius: copy/paste from word/openoffice is a MUST i believe
Karen Stingel: can Tiki output OpenOffice Documents?
Torsten Fabricius: would be on the wishlist BIGTIME!
luciash d' being: Karen: nope, you would need another parser wiki to XML
Torsten Fabricius: robert? Wiki -> ODT -> in lettre or A4?
Geoff Brickell: yep
Bernard Sfez: LOL
Torsten Fabricius: loool
Karen Stingel: Wiki -> ODT would kill need for Wiki -> ePub ... ePub compilers can import ODT files
Bernard Sfez: good my mic was closed
robertplummer: Torsten ODT could be very possible.
luciash d' being: TinyMCE it was really good alternative
luciash d' being: back in time when I tested
Jean-Marc Libs: I wonder in which format lite-etherpad stores data?
Jonny Bradley: brb (sry)
Torsten Fabricius: bye jonny
luciash d' being: I wonder how much effort would it take to create own Wikiwyg editor when we already have CodeMirror syntax highlighter + Jison
Jonny Bradley: arb (am right back ;)
Torsten Fabricius: welcome jonny
Jonny Bradley: :D
Torsten Fabricius: I would not be concerned to lose plugin code when exporting ODT and reimporting ti Wiki -> that would (in my mind) absolutely not necessary
Karen Stingel: could WYMeditor (http://www.wymeditor.org/) be of any help at all?
Torsten Fabricius: there simply are no wikiplugins in ODT
Jonny Bradley: wymeditor looks good
Bernard Sfez: still alive :)
robertplummer: http://www.wymeditor.org/demo/
Bernard Sfez: couldn't hear you Robert
Torsten Fabricius: looks like that we are going to make a record for the longest Tiki webinar?
Karen Stingel: http://files.wymeditor.org/wymeditor/examples/
luciash d' being: hopefuly the record gets recorded properly
Guest: Nelson: yay
Torsten Fabricius: robert is so cool :-)
robertplummer: lib/core/WikiPlugin/Negotiator/Wiki.php
robertplummer: execute()
robertplummer: $this->name
robertplummer: $this->syntax
robertplummer: $this->key
robertplummer: zend_plugin_exists
Jean-Marc Libs: /me will need a lot of documentation to figure out the new "simple" syntax
robertplummer: http://qa.tiki.org/job/TikiDoc/javadoc/
Torsten Fabricius: dev.tiki.org/how+to+create+a+zend+plugin
Torsten Fabricius: s.th. like that jean-marc?
Torsten Fabricius: an autoupdated wikipage?
robertplummer: http://dev.tiki.org/Create+a+Zend+Wiki+Plugin
luciash d' being: aye, the error list is huge: http://qa.tiki.org/job/TikiDoc/javadoc/errors.html
Jonny Bradley: +1 for phpstorm
Karen Stingel: +10
robertplummer: lib/core
robertplummer: lib/core/WikiPlugins/
Karen Stingel: should custom plugins be stored in a different folder?
Geoff Brickell: got to call it a night now - bye
Karen Stingel: nite Geoff
robertplummer: $parser->negotiator->inject(new My_Plugin());
Karen Stingel: I meant a 'custom plugin' in terms of belonging to a specific custom theme
Torsten Fabricius: a plugin belonging to a theme Karen?
Jean-Marc Libs: you mean a different version of the pluin depending on the theme?
Karen Stingel: graceful degrade from polyglot to html ... needed for ePub 2.0 readers (for the moment)
Jean-Marc Libs: neither could I :-(
Bernard Sfez: no no !
luciash d' being: good dog :)
Torsten Fabricius: somehow I remember it worked then?
Bernard Sfez: he kill the dog ? what ?
luciash d' being: i guess he should give him some dogfood ;)
Torsten Fabricius: web svn - he made it to login via Tiki
Bernard Sfez: :)
Torsten Fabricius: didn't changi give him the direction?
Karen Stingel: current ePub compilers/checkers will strip out HTML5 elements ... a graceful degrade to DIV.class would be helpful
Torsten Fabricius: ah marc ... keeping the main core maintained from the Tiki svn and same time use custoim code in it!?
Karen Stingel: could also be used to help older browsers
Torsten Fabricius: you do not hack the Tiki code, you hack besides the Tiki code
robertplummer: lol
Torsten Fabricius: yes?
robertplummer: yes
Guest: refizul: polom
Karen Stingel: that's why I asked the original question about where custom plugins should go ... so that with upgrades, there's no risk of custom plugins being overwritten
Jean-Marc Libs: Robert: can you answer Karen's question ? I'm not sure
Guest: refizul: where is my nick?
luciash d' being: Karen: we do not officialy care about "older browsers" (IE6 if you mean that specifically) since, Tiki 7.0 ?
anonymous: I do not know, maybe you lost it on tiki.org?
Jean-Marc Libs: Refizul: you need to ligon in Tiki, then click on the BBB link
anonymous: uh me aswell
robertplummer: lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_*.php
Jean-Marc Libs: /login
robertplummer: lib/core/WikiPlugin/myplugin.php
robertplummer: http://dev.tiki.org/Create+a+Zend+Wiki+Plugin
Karen Stingel: also becomes a factor if I write plugin_fried_eggs and then in say, Tiki15 thaqt same plugin name is released as part of Tiki
Jean-Marc Libs: Robert : and where is the corresponding template ?
luciash d' being: btw, i usually put "custom" folder for custom stuff in tiki root
Torsten Fabricius: luci, but you need several custom places, isn't it? for ex. themes, templates
luciash d' being: but there is no infrastructure to support this yet (to override default plugins etc.) - it is just a routine
luciash d' being: Torsten: yes
Torsten Fabricius: +1
Torsten Fabricius: {FONT()}
luciash d' being: would be better to support something like custom/themes/Foo/styles and custom/themes/Foo/templates and custom/wiki-plugins/ etc.
Torsten Fabricius: luci, sounds similar like i organise file storingin drectory
Karen Stingel: for themes ... there would be no real need to divert the path ....
Frank Guthausen: re with login
Torsten Fabricius: ah welcome frank
Torsten Fabricius: (/me=fabricius)
Frank Guthausen: very odd - chrome flash does not work for this here
Karen Stingel: theme creators are already advised to create /style/newtheme etc
Bernard Sfez: now i'm sleeping...
luciash d' being: :)
rrobertplummer: I'm out, baby calls.
Torsten Fabricius: for me audio does not work and I am thrown out frequently ... doing audio with skype
Torsten Fabricius: bye robert
robertplummer: Jonny, hit the dev list, you want many people!
Karen Stingel: I haven't had a problem with Chrome on Windows ... Opera crashed though
Bernard Sfez: end december i'm planning to come to Paris :)
Karen Stingel: so, was today literally Tiki's 10th birthday?
luciash d' being: was u in Berlin Jonny ?
Karen Stingel: or just October in general?
luciash d' being: were, even :)
Jonny Bradley: yes, Berlin until yesterday
Guest: Nelson: cya.
luciash d' being: yay, bye
Torsten Fabricius: what day the TikiFest has been jonny?
Bernard Sfez: bye
Torsten Fabricius: bye everybody
Bernard Sfez: irc
Torsten Fabricius: glad to join this specific fest
Jonny Bradley: bibi
Guest: Nelson: bye
Karen Stingel: bye

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